The Olive8, at the edge of downtown and Capitol Hill, is in the mix for urban living. It’s steps away from the Paramount Theater, the downtown shopping district, close-by the new Whole Foods and a short hop over to Capitol Hill. This area of downtown is generally less active, aside from the cars on Olive heading to the I-5 at rush hour.
Olive8 follows the lead of The 2200 and Madison Tower by incorporating a hotel and many upscale amenities. The Grand Hyatt will reside on the lower 17 levels with residences from the 18th thru the 36th level.
The project includes more than 180 one-, two-, two + den and penthouse residences. The homes come with upscale interiors including Pedini italian cabinets, stone countertops, hardwood floors, stainless Leibherr and Bosch appliances, A/C, 10′+ ceilings and private balconies.
Residents will have access to the Hyatt’s amenities, including a full-service spa, fitness center with a 65 foot lap pool, housekeeping, 24-hour room service and concierge services.
Back a little on it’s location. It sits right next to the 33-story Qwest Plaza which blocks most of the west-facing views except from the “00″ NW corner units. And, expect to spend at least $1,000,000 for those units. On the north, you need to be on or above the 28th story to have a view that’s unobstructed by the 720 Olive Way building (red brick). Finally, towards the east are additional projects that are proposed or under construction. Over the long-term, residences may feel boxed-in, but that’s fairly common for downtown living. The point is, just because there’s some open spaces now, doesn’t mean it’ll be there in 4-5 years.
Homes are on sale now and range from $500,000 to well over $2,000,000. Amazingly, many of the homes that face directly into Qwest Plaza have sold. At this time, most of the available homes are on the east and north side of the building. Visit Olive8.
November 8th, 2006 at 12:23 pm
I am looking for a presale loft or 1 bedroom unit!
Thanks for your assistance,
Dave
March 1st, 2007 at 9:26 am
ibedroom,1 bath 500-600 sq.ft, 200-250,000/cash?????
March 1st, 2007 at 10:02 am
Don & Olga, currently in Olive8, one bedrooms start at the $500,000 level. The most affordable option close in the downtown area would be Tobira. I’ll run a list of available condos in the $200-250 price range and will send them to you.
September 17th, 2008 at 1:34 pm
Does anyone currently own a condo at Olive8? If you do, are you nervous as much as I am? how do you feel about this economy? does it make you want to drop out and get your earnest money back? Does it make you feel that the price at Olive8 will be reduced and that you will get a better price than what you bought originally? Does anyone have any honest update on current Seattle market and especially Olive8, is it a good buy? please let me know of your thoughs.
September 17th, 2008 at 2:32 pm
Condogirl – review your purchase contract and addenda in respects to terminating the contract as you may forfeit the earnest money payment. Some contracts have tight language regarding buyer back outs and forfeiture of EM. Buyers at Gallery, Brix, and I believe 1521, will lose their EM if they’re unable to close. Escala’s contract is pretty tight as well. As an alternative, check to see if they will allow assignments. A smart developer will allow buyers to seek assignment of their purchase contract rather than having another unsold unit in their inventory.
I personally believe it may be at least another year, maybe two, before we’ll see values improve in the city core areas. If you intend to hold the property for awhile (5 or more years), you’ll be ok. If you anticipate re-selling within the next 2-3 years, you may not realize a net gain. The downturn provides at least one advantage, it has kept competitive projects out of the market. With the exception of Escala, we may not see another new condo building completed in downtown until 2011.
September 17th, 2008 at 3:37 pm
I currently own a condo in Olive8 and although the real estate market is terrible, there was still a big enough price increase from when we purchased in 2006 that we should be ok if we look to sell our unit immediately. The unit below ours just sold for much more than we paid when we originally signed docs. The problem is closing the home now. I know for a fact Olive 8 will not let you out of your contract without forfeiting earnest money, I tried. So now we are hoping to close, and sell immediately.
September 17th, 2008 at 7:23 pm
Thanks much for sharing your thoughts!!! I love this blog!!!
September 19th, 2008 at 1:42 pm
Any buyer’s at Olive 8 who are nervous about closing should look at my posting on craigslist. I’m actively seeking to take over an assignment on a unit currently under contract at the development.
http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/rew/847381063.html
September 22nd, 2008 at 7:27 pm
I am also a buyer at olive8 and I am also nervous, “08 owner” you said you tried to back out, what made you change your mind from when you originally pre- purchased? is it the market condititions. and did you just ask for your deposit back or did you try and find a loophole in the contract?
September 22nd, 2008 at 7:34 pm
reselling a unit at olive8 may be difficult as there will most definately be many flippers, flipping was still a good idea back when olive8 presold ( in 06 )and IMHO there will be a alot of people desperate to unload. just my 2cents
October 6th, 2008 at 11:57 am
CondoBoy,
I totally agree that it will be very difficult to sell my unit at Olive8. I wouldn’t say I am trying to “flip it” because I feel that has a sense of greed to it. I would be happy just getting the deposit back and the 15k in upgrades we purchased. Anything on top of that would be just a bonus.
We tried to back out and get the deposit back, but were told that would not be possible. We could back out, but not get the deposit back. So now we hope to close and sell it immediately. We are obviously hoping to have a buyer before closing and I am sure what we would offer our unit at would be much less than they would offer. The reason we (my wife and I) are changing our mind is mainly due to market conditions and our personal financial stability. Things in ’06 are much different than they are now, which is unfortunate, because we think the building is amazing and the views from our unit are unbelievable!
October 6th, 2008 at 11:57 am
Seattle29,
Are you still looking to take over an assignment at Olive8?
October 6th, 2008 at 12:45 pm
I agreed. I confirmed with them and yes you will lose your earnest money if you try to back out. But I just remember, if one’s loan application does not go through for some reason, for instance job lost; will this person get their earnest money back since this is not their wish to break the contract? Does anyone know the answer?
October 6th, 2008 at 1:43 pm
I hate to say it, but that’s the risk in buying presale. Think about this: if the value of the unit goes up, does the developer have the right to back out of the contract since he could sell it for more? Certainly not.
I really believe this will be a tough one to flip since there are so many investors in this project. I know several people from Williams Marketing alone that are planning on flipping. My guess is that 1/3 of the people bought a unit there to flip.
Just curious – when did you guys reserve your unit? As long as you reserved in the first month you should be alright, since some prices rose 25% after that.
October 6th, 2008 at 4:08 pm
It all depends on what is in the Purchase and sale agreement that was signed. If there is a contingency based on a loan approval, should get deposit back. If the contingency is not there or was waived…up to the developer. It will be interesting to see how all these buildings coming on line in the next few months will close and fill or not fill. Rollins, Veer, Gallery, Olive 8, etc.
October 6th, 2008 at 4:16 pm
O8 owner,
I am. You can use this craiglist post to contact me.
thanks for the interest.
http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/rew/869105488.html
October 6th, 2008 at 5:12 pm
Kent – Gallery and Brix are about 1/2 sold and both have a few pre-sale buyers who are not able to close on their contracts. I’ve heard from about 6 people in both projects who can’t close due to financing; they’ll loose their EM deposit if they don’t find an assignable buyer. The tough thing for them is that they’re competing with the developer who still has 50% of the inventory left unsold. Plus, it’s difficult to market/advertise assignments. Enso, Veer and Rollins, I believe are between 40-60% sold and I suspect those buyers may have issues with financing as well. Unfortunately, there’s still a lot of unsold new construction inventory on the market.
Condogirl – that depends on the contract. I haven’t seen Olive 8′s contract, but I suspect if it’s like other new developments, financing was waived early on, usually within 2-4 weeks of mutual acceptance.
October 7th, 2008 at 1:10 pm
Thanks Ben. You’re right about the approve financing in the begining. There is absolutely no way out without losing the earnest money. The market is looking pretty bad right now. The bank is afraid to give out loan to borrowers. We got the pre-approve in 2006 but that doesn’t mean they will approve it again in 2008 or 2009. It may take a while for the market to recover and stablize the banking system. This market obviously doesn’t help at all.
October 7th, 2008 at 2:03 pm
I apologize for not being more specific regarding my original post. I am looking for a one bedroom unit on floors 18-21. Anyone who is interested in transferring their contract, please use my craigslist post.
http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/rew/869105488.html
October 8th, 2008 at 7:55 am
quote: O8 owner 2 says:
“I hate to say it, but that’s the risk in buying presale. Think about this: if the value of the unit goes up, does the developer have the right to back out of the contract since he could sell it for more? Certainly not. ”
actually you are wrong. The Developer can choose NOT to sell the unit to you for almost any reason (a developer canceling contracts and selling at a higher price has actually happened in newyork city condos), I had a lawyer go over the contract for me, and they have many options, the buyer has almost none.
October 8th, 2008 at 4:37 pm
Did anyone attend the buyer’s get together last night? Anything worth noting?
October 8th, 2008 at 10:32 pm
I attended the buyers event, they really seemed to gloss over the whole financial crisis, They pretty much just said that good loans could still be attained and not to worry ( wow… I feel sooo much better after that, because they have no bias! ) they also covered the many steps of the closing process, and continued to claim they were going to deliver the condos ontime and the hotel would open end of december or 1st week in jan. great food too!
October 8th, 2008 at 11:31 pm
Ditto what condoboy said.
The health clue fees will be $50 person/$90 couple.
Move-ins will only be two per day.
Also had the restaurant menu, $17 for a club sammich+fries during lunch. Yikes….
Countrywide rep – “as long as you’re not a janitor saying you make 150k and have no documentation of it you’ll be fine getting a loan”. Umm, ok.
Fitness center is 24 hours (cool!) with the exception of the “wet areas” which is 5:30-10:30PM. Hotel patrons will not have access to the wet areas unless they want to pay. Keeps the kiddies out.
A bike locker that will only fit two dozen bikes. For 229 units. That’s about one spot for every ten units. Something tells me that’s not going to cut it.
183/229 units have been “sold” – a couple units have been combined. I don’t get why they kepy saying they are sold when they’re only reserved.
October 9th, 2008 at 10:18 am
Thanks for the update on the Buyers Event. I missed it, but it sounds like the same stuff from the previous events. I find it hard to believe that they will be closing condos on time. They last told me that the crane was going to be removed in August because they needed to make up some time. Well, last week the crane was removed (October).
I walked through the building a few weeks back and the amenities are top-flight, but the price of the restaurant is ridiculous! They said they wanted to price it so you could eat there all the time. My idea of a Wednesday night isn’t blowing $50 on a burger and fries for 2. Anyways, I am sure it will be very nice and it will be nice to have a place to grab a drink.
October 10th, 2008 at 1:42 pm
Did anyone else have anything more to say about the buyer’s event? Did anyone ask the developer if they will do anything to compensate buyers whose units have realistically dropped 5% or more in value? No sense in closing if you have lost 6% or more in value.
October 10th, 2008 at 4:05 pm
The developer would probably give the same reaction I’d give if they asked how I’d compensate them since my unit went up in value more than 5% – a chuckle.
If your unit went up in value, you wouldn’t think of compensating the developer, would you? Of course not. Why would you expect the same from him?
Pre-buying a condo can be a risk. Just happens this time it didn’t work out for you.
October 10th, 2008 at 9:33 pm
Frankly this set of postings sounds like passengers on the Titanic worrying if they’ll get a full or partial refund, vs. a voucher for a new cruise.
October 11th, 2008 at 1:15 pm
O8 owner 2 [said] If your unit went up in value, you wouldn’t think of compensating the developer, would you? Of course not. Why would you expect the same from him?
Here is the thought. If the condo went down in value more than 6% it is prudent for the buyer to walk from the earnest money. Let’s say the value dropped 10% or even 14% which is likely for today’s pre-sales that were sold over 12 – 18 months ago and are scheduled for delivery in the next 3 – 12 months. It would be wise for the developer to attempt to keep their buyers and negotiate with them. If the buyer walks… the developer is left with 5% earnest money and an unsold unit from which the developer will have to sell at the current market rate which could be 10% to 15% less (maybe higher is some cases such as units over $850,000). The developer and buyer each would have to perform their due diligence in determining the “real” market value. Somewhere in the middle could be a spot where the developer is not losing the sale and the buyer is not paying the inflated value from the crazed pre-sales of yesteryear. The price would be somewhat higher than market value… say 2% – 5%. This will get the developer a higher sale price than if the buyer walks and they have to re-sell. The buyer is paying a small premium to stay in the transaction, however, the buyer is not losing their 5% earnest money. This is a “Win – Win”… otherwise the alternative is that the buyer walks from their earnest money (LOSE) and the buyer upset for all sorts of reasons and the developer is stuck with having to re-sell the unit at the current market rate which nets the deveoper less than if they would negotiate (LOSE).
Please give your comments on this idea, especially if you are currently a buyer in one of the pre-sale projects.
October 11th, 2008 at 3:38 pm
CondoCow – I can see what you’re getting at and you’re right, developers don’t want to be stuck with unsold inventory. Though, given that the majority of buyers are either buying a principal home or an investment it may not be all that applicable.
If a buyer intends to reside in the unit, which most pre-sale buyers do, then the drop in value at completion may not matter. Every buyer’s circumstance is different, but it’s difficult to realize a situation where someone forfeits earnest money and walks away from their primary residence simply because of a drop in market value at closing, which is essentially a paper loss. Now, if someone is buying it as a second home, then it’s possible. From the developers standpoint, it’s a good bet that those buying a home will attempt to close, so the risk that buyers will walk away will be small. Most that do, have done so because they’re no longer able to secure financing, and even if a developer is willing to renegotiate it’ll have little impact, if any, on a buyer’s ability to obtain financing.
Over time (how ever long that is), the market will bottom out and rebound and the buyer will have a great place to live in the meantime. Depending on how long they hold the property, they can recover the initial drop and realize appreciation.
If they are purchasing as a flip investment, in this market, it may very well be advisable for the buyer to cut their losses and forfeit the earnest money. If they attempt flip in a down market, they’ll also incur carrying costs and closing/transaction costs which will only increase their losses. Plus, they’re competing with developer’s unsold units which at many projects could be a high as 50% of the building’s inventory. I know of someone who backed out of a Bellevue project leaving behind a $50,000 earnest money deposit on the table because the expected losses from trying to flip was greater than the earnest money amount. Gallery has a few investors who are waking away from their deposits as well, though they’re mostly due to financing reasons. In these cases, there’s very little the developer can to do to entice investors to close their purchases.
October 12th, 2008 at 12:23 am
No offense, but that’s lunacy for several reasons. I get what your saying but you’ll never EVER see that happen.
How do you determine what the unit’s value is on an entire project of new condos that have never been sold before. O8 is a fairly unique project, you can’t really compare it to anything else in the immediate area. Expecting the buyer and developer to determine a “fair price”?
And I can’t imagine the headaches they would get from all the other owner’s who would be crying for a reduction in their price if they started giving them out. Can you imagine 183 different buyers haggling with the developer to detemine a fair price?
Say I reserve a unit at 500k. A year later, someone reserves the same floor plan, a floor higher, for 600k (this happened often at O8, I’m in at a price that is 110k lower than the next higher floor).
You honestly think that the guy that got it at 500k won’t make a fuss about the 600k guys unit being dropped to a much lower price? It’d be an absolute disaster. I’d be knocking down the door if the developer started lowering other units PSA prices. Not to mention that if they actually did the price drop I’d be screaming to be let out of mine.
Bottom line, you signed the PSA agreeing to purchase the unit at a set price. Walk away, lose your 5%, and hope the same unit comes back up for sale at less than 95% of the originally agreed sales price. I can’t see the developer going through all this work and headaches to squeeze an 2%-5% out of a few units.
October 12th, 2008 at 3:10 pm
One thing to remember is that in this banking environment, at the time of closing, if the unit is worth significantly less than the agreed on sales price, a bank WILL NOT MAKE THE LOAN ( washington mutual anyone? this scenerio is playing out in manahattan,and deals have fallen apart as a result). the developer is going to be hoping/praying that the appraisals come in at the asking price. I can only hope the appraisers will be honest.
October 13th, 2008 at 4:04 pm
Don’t most PSAs have a clause that allows you to get your earnest money back if you can’t secure a mortgage? I know mine does.
October 13th, 2008 at 10:50 pm
CondoCow – I think you make a good point. Developers can’t be thrilled collecting a deposit and having another high priced piece of inventory on their books.
08 owner 2 – I think it may well happen. If 2 parties are motivated to find a win/win they will. This is negotiation. Everything is negotiable in these markets. You are right about people making a fuss, but every condo owner for themselves. Get what you can. The developers will want to talk with qualified buyers, and 2 to 3% reductions (or more) are not likely to get in the way.
condoboy – great point, which makes CondoCow’s suggestion more likely.
chris – you are lucky or smart or both. Good for you.
What is really going on out there in the trenches? Does anyone have any real data or stories on this subject? All of this crazy conjecture (mine included) needs some fact based examples.
October 14th, 2008 at 6:16 am
chris says: “Don’t most PSAs have a clause that allows you to get your earnest money back if you can’t secure a mortgage? I know mine does.”
Chris – Where does it say that in your PSA? I believe Olive8 have all their buyers waive and approve financing in the beginning to avoid sales failing apart while under construction. Can anyone review your PSA again and provide fact about getting earnest money back if cant secure a mortgage?
October 14th, 2008 at 7:54 am
Most purchase agreements used by developers either do not have a financing clause, identify that financing conditions are waived, or have one with a very short fuse (e.g. 10 days). Every contract is likely different and it would be best to have yours reviewed by a professional.
November 7th, 2008 at 2:38 pm
In case anyone has tried to use my craigslist post, here it is again for anyone interested in getting out of their contract at Olive 8.
http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/rew/908736357.html
November 7th, 2008 at 3:34 pm
FYI – this guy is only looking to take over a low 300k contract on a one bedroom
November 9th, 2008 at 8:43 pm
I would be willing to take over any contract on the lower floors where the pre-sale price is reasonable and, yes, I would prefer a one bedroom. I apologize in assuming that my post on October 7th was not a sufficient explanation of what I am looking for.
December 11th, 2008 at 12:19 pm
I am looking to sell my assignment for the price I paid back in April 2006. This is a 26th floor unit with NW views and we have 2 parking spots. It is the “00″ floorplan and has views of the Olympics and of Lake Union. The home is 1538 SF 2 BR+Den, 2 BA with all the amenities you could ask for. This floor is just above the building with the red roof to the north, so you can see all of the lake. The price in 06 was much better than the price now. We are not looking to make anything on the unit, just to get our deposit and cost of our upgrades back. At this point, we wont be able to close, so if you or anyone you know of are interested, let me know.
December 11th, 2008 at 5:09 pm
I am sorry to hear you won’t be able to close on your unit. My husband and I are worried we won’t be able to close on ours in another building also. What steps have you taken to try to get your EM and upgrade money back? Have you hired an RE attorney to look over your POS? We are curious as we are in the same boat. Best of luck to you.
December 13th, 2008 at 2:52 pm
what was your total deposit and upgrade?
December 14th, 2008 at 10:45 am
What is the price of condo?
December 15th, 2008 at 4:24 pm
For more information on the unit, please email me at olive8owner@gmail.com. Thanks for your interest.
December 17th, 2008 at 12:31 am
Last spring we put a 5% deposit on a nearby condo under construction. The unit is on the 8th floor. My wife was visiting the sales ctr & asked how much the same plan one flr up was. Not remembering her they said the same unit on the 13th floor was avail for $50k less than what we paid on the 8th floor. Now what? She just walked out stunned.
I question how they expect our unit to appraise for more than the one 5 floors up?
December 17th, 2008 at 1:39 pm
With this economy, I’m afraid I won’t be able to close on my investment at Olive8. I’m looking for someone to take over the contract so I can get my earnest money back. I reserved the sky collection 03 plan. It’s a hot selling plan, almost all 03 plans are sold out. It is a great investment if you got the money to buy it. If you’re interested, please email me at olive8condo@yahoo.com for more information.
December 18th, 2008 at 9:11 pm
Great info. Nice to know I’m not alone. 1 bed room 28th floor, bought on spec . My guess is there is a much higher percentage of spec buyers than admitted to in purchase doc’s. How about a no fee (craigs list) condo clearing house web site.
December 20th, 2008 at 1:50 am
If there are any other olive8buyers out there ,I would be curious to know if you are wanting to close, or wanting to back out. I just noticed that there are units for lease on the seattle mls, which makes me nervous. If they are going to rent out units, that is not good for value. Not to mention, they were offered as condos, not condo/apartments.
January 3rd, 2009 at 5:57 pm
I also bought an unit in April 06 and put in some upgrade later on. Reading this blog makes me nervous. What are the likelyhood of negotiating the price? say a 5% down?
January 4th, 2009 at 3:45 am
There is almost no way they would allow negotiation. Are you planning on living there for a while, or were you planning to sell it? I am also curious what you are nervous about specifically… Paying too much?
we buyers at olive8 took a gamble years ago. with a presale only 2 things can happen, it is worth more when you move in, or it is worth less when you move in. If it was worth more, would you let the developer renogotiate to charge you more money?
That all being said, anythings possible in this market.
good luck to you kyyy, who knows, we might end up being neighbors
January 7th, 2009 at 2:41 pm
I do not have a problem closing it. However, When i bought it, I was hoping to find a job and get back to Seattle (I am currently in the East coast). With this kind of job market, I am not sure when I can get back to Seattle and do not know what to do with the unit.
January 9th, 2009 at 9:27 pm
I am so glad I found this blog. I thought I am the only one who is thinking of backing out from my condo at Olive 8. I also purchased a unit on the 29th floor and I leaning towards walking away for many reasons. Lending market is tough especially if you are doing a jumbo loan. The uncertaintly of the economy is making me nervous. I am afraid the value of these units will drop and I can not afford to lose equity few months after I move-in. If you observe the floor plans on their website, 18th floor was shaded gray meaning all units were sold out, well I noticed today 18th floor is again shaded yellow and one unit is not back available on the market. It will be interesting to see how many people are going to close.
January 10th, 2009 at 10:56 am
That’s interesting, does seem like a few more units become available. Esp the open one bedroom on 18 or 19.
I wonder why. It doesn’t make any sense for someone to back out now. Why not try and dump the unit, or wait right up until closing before backing out? Why not wait the few months until closing and back out then?
Something fishy is going on. Either: they got a lawyer and the lawyer was somehow able to get their earnest month back OR O8 gave them some sort of concessions in allowing them to back out of their units. In no way would someone back out and give up their earnest money this far in advance of closing. It just doesn’t make any sense.
Any of you guys out there? We’d love to hear from ya!
I’d be curious if anyone has gotten a lawyer yet, or the real reason these units are back on the market.
January 11th, 2009 at 12:13 am
to interestings comment above, I know it seems like they should wait till the last minute, but sometimes its pointless. there are many reasons somone would back out now, not the least of which is they have lost their job, credit score, or dont have 10% to put down. THEY CANT CLOSE. and I should point out that in any high-rise presale situation, it is normal for 10% to 20% of buyers to walk away from their deposits before closing, it is perfectly normal, as alot can happen in 3 years.
January 11th, 2009 at 12:13 am
the contracts are pretty much air tight, I had a lawyer look at it BEFORE I signed it, and she said, if I sign it i will essentially NEVER get My money back. Again I am closing, here are my reasons, The building, materials, interiors, everything, is very high quality and a great deal compared to escala, 1521, 4 seasons, etc.( no I am not an agent ) It is probably one of the best locations in downtown seattle, literally right across the street from the street car, transit station and light rail, and new developments are going up all around it. the olivian apartments across the street are going to be renting for roughly 3 dollars a sqft. I am not thinking what it will be worth next year, I am thinking what it will be worth in 10 years.
January 13th, 2009 at 6:15 pm
Condoboy,
We have represented a lot of condo buyers who want out of their purchase and sale agreements and have helped them obtain some or all of their earnest money. Judging by the comments on this blog I think many of the above posters would be surprised at the number of ways an “air tight” contract can be cracked. I’m more than happy to discuss options with anyone who would like to contact me.
January 14th, 2009 at 11:05 pm
Marc, how do I get hold of you I am very interested in talking to you.
January 15th, 2009 at 12:25 am
To contact Marc click on his name. It links to his website where you can contact him directly..
January 18th, 2009 at 3:06 pm
Thanks Ben! I look forward to speaking with you Ampy.
January 19th, 2009 at 10:57 am
has anyone spoken to this man? any luck with getting the earnest money back?
January 19th, 2009 at 11:58 am
Hi Mark,
I am just waiting for some documents. I will be in touch with your soon.
January 26th, 2009 at 3:30 pm
Hello, has anyone have any success working with Marc getting your earnest money back? please let me know. I am anxious to find out. Thanks a bunch!
January 26th, 2009 at 11:24 pm
I cant see how he could get one person their money back and then not another ( as everyone signed the same psa ), so If he could show that he was able to get even just one person their money back, he could get a lot of clients Im sure. Or is he just fishing for fees? so lets hear about it Marc, any luck @ olive8. I know some very “well lawyered” folks at the 1521 project who were unable to get their deposit back. I am not saying anything bad about marc as I dont know him, but I would approach with skepticism and lots of questions.
January 27th, 2009 at 4:52 pm
Condoboy,
That’s a fair question and I certainly understand why you ask it. However, I would not answer it whether the answer was yes or no. To do so would risk prejudicing the developer of Olive 8 (or any other builder who might be reading this post) against any current or future clients I might have. For the same reason I will neither admit nor deny that I currently have any clients dealing with Olive 8. You never know who might be monitoring boards like this. Not to mention that attorney-client confidentiality precludes me from discussing specific results
It certainly stands to reason that obtaining one refund increases the likelihood of obtaining others. However, every buyer’s and every builder’s situation is unique even where the documents that were signed are substantially similar, if not identical, between all the other buyers. Accordingly, it would be imprudent to make broad generalizations .
That said, my firm has successfully negotiated refunds for clients dealing with numerous in and around Seattle. We are also currently litigating against a major builder who refused to refund my client’s funds and we expect to be litigating against another one soon. However, there is never a guarantee of success in a contract dispute and I make certain my clients understand this before the representation begins.
February 11th, 2009 at 2:10 pm
Are there any other O8 buyers that are interested in getting together to discuss our options? From reading other blogs, it seems like Rollin Street and Veer buyers are all joining together to discuss their options.
February 11th, 2009 at 3:16 pm
I wouldnt be opposed to getting together to discuss options.
I did hear a rumor that Rollin Street is having extreme difficulty getting buyers to close and are potentially looking at renting their units as apartments until the market clears up. In this case, buyers would get earnest money back and it makes sense for Vulcan to bring in some cash flow instead of having vacant units sit for months on end. Does anyone know if this is a possibility with Olive8? That would be great!
February 11th, 2009 at 3:29 pm
O8 Owner – just to comment on Rollin. I did hear that scenario/rumor floating around, but at this point, it’s just speculation. Vulcan, however, did notify Rollin Street buyers that (1) they are postponing closings and (2) due to new Fannie Mae guidelines, they may not be able to close on loans. New Fannie Mae guidelines may require condo developments to be 70% pre-sold and Rollin is nowhere close to 70%. Vulcan is likely keep all options open. Other projects will be affected by this new guideline as well. (revised)
February 11th, 2009 at 4:10 pm
Ben’s correct about Rollin Street. I’ve seen an email from the developer’s representative to a buyer that follows Ben’s description of the situation.
February 12th, 2009 at 6:28 pm
Rollin’s postponed closing to April 2009. They are getting a ton of bad press from the guy who bought at Veer who was in the PI last week.
I noticed that units at 1521 are already on the MLS, plus there is a lawsuit from eight owners, probably because they are also unable to close financing.
February 12th, 2009 at 6:30 pm
And to add insult to injury:
Effective March 1, 2009, Fannie Mae is implementing condo guideline changes “in light of the current condo market and the need to mitigate risk on condo loans”. Some of these changes may affect a buyer’s ability to obtain conventional condo loans for new and established condos.
February 13th, 2009 at 8:45 pm
I would like to talk to other olive8 buyers?
I dont know if enough of them post or read here to make it worth while?
February 18th, 2009 at 6:38 pm
Attention all Olive8 Buyers,
If you are interested in getting together to discuss the current status of condo lending and to discuss if you plan on going through with your purchase or not, please email me and I will facilitate a meeting place in downtown Seattle (Belltown or South Lake Union). Please pass this email on to any other O8 buyers that would potentially be interested in discussing our options. I am a buyer at O8 and do not work for the developer or Leslie Williams. I am not an attorney and have no interest other than learning what my fellow buyers plans are. I know of three other buyers and they will attend. Please email me if you’re interested. You do not need to disclose your unit number, just let me know if you’re interested.
O8 Buyer
olive8buyer@gmail.com
February 19th, 2009 at 2:42 pm
I’ve spoken to several lenders, and they’ve ALL said that hotel/condo financing is near to impossible to attain right now with the new FM regulations.
My guess is that O8 sticks it to everyone who has reserved, takes the earnest money and ends up converting to apartments.
Lincoln Square financing is about impossible as well as 2200, both condotels.
February 19th, 2009 at 2:59 pm
o8buyer2 – thanks for the comment and visiting the blog. I spoke with a rep at Olive8 who stated the project has approval through its preferred lender Countrywide, but only Countrywide. As you found out, other lenders are unlikely to lend for Olive 8, so re-sale buyers will need to work with Countrywide as well.
Just a point of clarification – Olive8, 2200, Lincoln Square – are not “condotels”. They are hotel and condo entities within the same property. Condotels are condos that can be rented as part of the hotel room inventory (e.g. 1 Hotel).
That said, the recent Fannie Mae changes will necessitate homeowner associations at 2200, Madison Tower, Millennium Tower, Lincoln Square and possibly the Four Seasons to obtain waivers on the 20% non-residential rule, otherwise, re-sales may be adversely impacted.
February 19th, 2009 at 3:45 pm
Spoke to a rep at Countrywide – here’s the deal in a nutshell
-You’ll need a minimum of 10% down, no less
-Rental income is not recognized if there’s less than 30% equity in the unit you’re going to rent out
-You’ll be paying the additional (.75) point fee since it’s a condo
Like Ben said, you’re pretty much forced to go with Countrywide.
February 19th, 2009 at 9:26 pm
Forced to go with Countrywide….thats messed up.
Email me if you’re interested in getting together.
February 21st, 2009 at 3:08 pm
It breaks my heart to walk past this building now it is nearly complete and realize that most of us who bought into the Olive 8 dream are never going to live here. Rationally, I know the condo’s are >30% overpriced for 2009 but it’s still hard to come to terms with that and walk away from earnest money.
My brother in law has done Seattle downtown real estate for nearly 20 years and we had a ‘told you so’ moment last weeked. He pointed out recent sales to me in comparable new condo’s where the per square foot is heading under $500, so it would be insane to close on Olive 8 even if financing was no problem. He is confident Olive 8 will be high end apartments by fall because the developers financing will not hold out when so many buyer closings fall through. The only developer likely to weather the storm is Vulcan because they have deep pockets (and they are still overpriced, plus I dislike the SLU location).
Life sucks.
Ex-Future Olive 8 resident
February 21st, 2009 at 3:23 pm
A point to consider if you think you should still close on an overpriced condo in the current market. Look at what is happening in Miami with condo’s that are 50% unsold or massively foreclosed. The few buyers left standing become responsible for ALL of the HOA fees and assessments.
from http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/15/business/15condo.html
“The pain in the condo market, mostly in urban areas, may not only be deeper than in the rest of the housing market during this downturn but more prolonged. Bargain hunters say they are reluctant to buy into a building even when the upfront cost seems low because they might have to pay unexpected fees as distressed neighbors default on their mortgages or just stop paying the association fees that cover everything from taxes to pool maintenance to air-conditioning repair.
Rosa Rodriguez, a resident and property manager at Parkview Point Condos in Miami Beach, says her former neighbors have left her with so many problems that she would never buy a condo again. The 38 foreclosures in her 244-unit building and the unpaid dues nearly cost the residents running water because the building could not pay its bills. The building abruptly stopped repairing its ceiling lobby and left its wiring and ducts exposed when the board ran out of money. She avoids answering questions from visitors about ceiling repairs.
“We’re not going to tell them we don’t have any money,” she said. “That’s embarrassing.”
February 21st, 2009 at 7:38 pm
OliveMartini – just curous, what condos do you think are comparable to Olive 8 and have under $500/sqft prices? Just curious how you are determining that Olive 8 is 30% over-priced…
Also – for anyone – what happens to buyers that do close if the developer later tries to switch to apartments? Is that even possible to have a mixed condo/apartment building? Do the closed parties get their money back, and a chance to rent, or?
On brighter note, I had a chance to walk around the lobby and amenity areas, and there is no doubt this building is top, top notch!
February 22nd, 2009 at 7:49 am
Sorry for breaking the thread, but I’m a buyer at Bellevue Towers and it appears that Olive8 and Bellevue Towers buyers are living in parallel universes, i.e., building is behind in “sold” units, some buyers unqualified (see article in Wed. Feb 18, 09 edition Seattle Times), some walking away from EM, developer refusing to adjust prices. Can’t find much discussion re BT. Anyone aware of a blog for propective BT buyers? Thanks.
February 22nd, 2009 at 9:23 am
NoTraction – there is a Yahoo group for Bellevue Towers, but it doesn’t look very active http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BTowers/
February 22nd, 2009 at 2:58 pm
Check the MLS and King Country sales records. 1521 is averaging $670 sf on closed sales (non-penthouse). 5th and Madison has had resales under $500 sf. Both are comparable to Olive 8 if you strip away the marketing hype. Olive 8 is asking $800 to over $1000 sf for non-penthouse condo’s with no view. That’s easily 30% overpriced – I’d say closer to 50%.
The other factor that I think may be hurting Olive 8 is the massive 27 story Olivian apartments going up across the road (http://theolivian.com/). With the Qwest building on one side and the Olivian on the other, it’s starting to look crowded on that block. Buyers below the 27th floor may have not taken the construction of such a large tower fully into consideration.
February 22nd, 2009 at 4:43 pm
I think the Olivian is a nice looking building does not look like the typical apartment building.
February 22nd, 2009 at 5:26 pm
Reader – good points on the price/sq ft. That said, the 1521 units closing are on the lowest floors, whereas the Olive 8 units still for sale on MLS are on the highest (generally). We will have to see what the 1521 sales look like on the higher floors, but generally speaking 1521 was quite a bit higher in price per sq ft compared to Olive 8 (asking prices). 5th and Madison is a nice building, but is not really comparable to the quality or amenities that Olive 8 will have.
And pretty sure that most buyers were aware of the Olivian apartments since they began construction around the same time. This is not nearly the same as the situation at Cosmo where only the most diligent that were checking city building permits would have known about the big office building going up next door.
February 22nd, 2009 at 7:00 pm
Has anyone spoken to an attorney to see if there is anyway to get our deposit back on Olive 8? It seems completely unfair that we have one lending option.
February 22nd, 2009 at 11:04 pm
Jeff,
I have received over 10 emails from O8 buyers that would like to get together to discuss our options. Marc, a real estate attorney who has posted on this forum, also contacted me and would be interested in attending our meeting. I told him I would check with the O8 buyers first to see if they wanted him to be there or not. His email indicates that he has O8 buyers as clients at this time.
Anyone else interested? There is an O8 event this Thursday and if we all speak with the other buyers, maybe we can see what everyone else is planning. I’d like to get a date and location chosen prior to this Thursday’s event so that we can spread the word. It would be nice to have a gathering of 20-30 O8 buyers, without anyone from Williams marketing or the developer’s office listening in.
Email me at olive8buyer@gmail.com
The meeting will likely take place next week, possibly on Sunday. I’ll email any interested buyers with the exact date, location, and time. I’ll also take a poll to see if we’d like to have Marc, the attorney, also attend.
February 23rd, 2009 at 12:58 am
Re Jeff “It seems completely unfair that we have one lending option.”
Just a technicality – Countrywide is O8′s designated preferred lender, but it’s unlikely that O8 requires buyers to use them. I’m not an atty, nor have I seen the terms that you and O8 agreed to in your contract, I’m not in real estate, but I doubt that there’s any language in the contract that requires O8 to provide you with a lender or that requires you to use an O8-designated lender, including Countrywide.
You have the option of going to any of a number of other banks. Ben notes that they may not be willing to lend you the money for the sale, but that’s a function of the current economic mess we’re in, not something that O8 is responsible for. Borrowing money from family, friends, 401(k) plans, etc., are other options. Perhaps not viable options for everyone, but again that’s not O8′s fault.
If you think that you might pursue legal action, read you contract and everything else you signed as thoroughly as you can, as that is likely to be near the heart of any case O8 would be part of. Collect any market literature you were given. Save off copies of the O8 website.
February 23rd, 2009 at 8:37 am
Mark W, Are you an O8 buyer? Are you familiar with the situation? Countrywide is the only option. The building is not approved by any other lenders. Wells Fargo was an option but it sounds like that is no longer the case. There are no wholesale options. That is why I say it does not seem fair.
February 23rd, 2009 at 9:16 am
Jeff,
I believe that you can look into credit unions as an option. Because they lend their own money, they do not need to stick by Fannie Mae standards. Look into Boeing Employees Credit Union.
olive8buyer@gmail.com
February 23rd, 2009 at 10:08 am
Not fair and not legal are two different things. Yes it stinks that Countrywide is the only option (as such their fees are higher since they really have no competition) but it’s not like O8 set it up that way.
One of the things that made me feel really comfortable about buying and closing at O8 is that the building was 75% sold (or reserved). However, with the current lending market and the number of people not completing that purchase (widely known that Olive8 had a ton of investors reserve units), I estimate that come August (when the building is finished) only 35% – 40% of the units will actually be “sold” and closed on. The majority of that being on the lower floors. The higher floors will be very tough to move since they’re so pricey.
Combine that with the price guarantee of a year ago (not like they can drop prices to get rid of the unsold inventory) and you’re going to have a half empty building for the next couple of years if nothing is done. Those unsold units will either: A. be taken over by the bank. B. dumped at an auction (thus avoiding the price guarantee) C. converted to apartments. My hunch is that by the end of the year the unsold units will be converted to apartments.
As much as I love the building and would like to close, I just see this entire thing going down in a disaster.
February 23rd, 2009 at 11:26 am
Isnt Wells Fargo another option? I thought I had read that they were lending without Fannie Mae backing.
O8buyer2 – I can’t see what you are proposing happening. I dont think financing will be that hard to come by. Surely there will be some fallout, but I am guessing it is fairly low. 1521 seems to be closing at a good pace for example.
February 23rd, 2009 at 11:38 am
I agree with 08Buyer2. As we get closer and closer to closings, and the developer realizes only 30% of the people who originally purchased can actually close, that we will see Olive8 as High-End Apartments for the next 5 years or until this market can turn around.
Financing right now is next to impossible for the units on the upper floors unless you have 30% down. Not a lot of people have 300k cash sitting around at the moment. Again, I think the building is amazing, top-notch, and would love to have been able to close. But, times now are nowhere near what they were in 2005/2006. It’s too bad the lending companies dont have to re-adjust their loan practices from then to now as well to reflect the current state of the market, i.e., what do you think you will be making in 2009? OK, you are approved!
Does anyone know what happens if the units dont appraise?
February 23rd, 2009 at 11:56 am
Wells Fargo is NOT an option. The usual guy I work with over there said there’s no way he could finance Olive8. He actually told me to run from Olive8. And this was mid last week.
Olive8 and 1521 are different beasts even though I could see how they seem like very similar projects. The average yearly income at 1521 is 750k/yr, most units sold for over a million, and are also many buyers second homes. Completely and totally different demographic than Olive8. The two don’t even compare. The majority of units at Olive8 are one bedrooms, 1521 is all two bedrooms. 1521 also had a lack of investors whereas Olive8 has a great number.
As far as the units appraising or not appraising that doesn’t matter. If you reserved at 500k and the unit appraises at 400k the lender will just require a larger (in this case, well over 100k) down payment to cover that gap. If you can’t provide that increased down payment you’ll be considered unable to secure financing and be forced to give up your earnest money. Olive8 is pretty much in the clear (giving back earnest money) in the case units don’t appraise for their reservation price. It would severely impact their future sales attempts however.
February 23rd, 2009 at 1:05 pm
1521 is not that different to Olive 8. If you check the King County property records, 1521 haven’t closed that many condo’s yet. Their PR talks about ‘reserved units’ but the reality on actual closed sales is very different right now given the credit markets and valuation challenges.
A prominent Seattle realtor filed a lawsuit against the 1521 developers last month to try and get his earnest money back on eight speculative condo’s. The same investor also bought heavily at Hotel 1000 and those condo’s haven’t moved in a year, despite price cuts. Olive 8 has a fair share of investors as well.
I agree that Olive 8 going apartments is the most likely route, rather than an auction. They’ll probably need to get going on a conversion before the Olivian across the street opens up later this year. In that case, everyone gets their earnest money back and is happy. There are plenty of other downtown condo’s to buy.
February 23rd, 2009 at 1:33 pm
Sorry guys, just dont see these going apartment. How would that even work if even a few units closed?
February 23rd, 2009 at 2:13 pm
Going apartment would happen one of two ways:
1. Developer decides to go apartment BEFORE any closings
2. After going though all the reservations, and a few months trying to sell, they get pressure from the banks and begin to rent out the remaining units.
My guess is that it’ll be number two. The developer will get stuck with less inventory and get to pocket all the earnest money from buyers backing out. Those who closed are stuck in a building with half rentals and half condo ownders
February 23rd, 2009 at 2:24 pm
O8buyer2,
Wouldn’t there be Home Owners Association issues if they were to rent out vs sell the units? The developer runs and pays for all HO dues until a certain percentage (70%??) of the units have been closed on.
February 23rd, 2009 at 2:24 pm
It is difficult to see these condos going apartment. This development will not pencil, from a cash flow/proforma perspective, as apartments unless there is a foreclosure, the Hyatt backs out (which it probably can’t) and some vulture capital group swipes it up from the bank at cents on the dollar. The developer will move from construction financing to permanent financing and will begin to pay down the perm loan with the initial sales even if only 40% sell. They may not make as much money as they thought with slow sales velocities, but it doesn’t mean they are going to convert to apartments or that sales prices are going to be reduced by an outrageous percentage. If you got in early and you got in on a lower floor, chances are, you’ll do well in 3 years. You never know though…that’s why returns are balanced by risk.
February 23rd, 2009 at 5:39 pm
Condo failures in Seattle are already happening. Look at the Intracorp projects like Parc, Expo 62 and Domaine. Intracorp is still trying to sell two dozen units at Parc. Expo 62 went apartment last year and all sales were cancelled. Domaine was auctioned off last month by the bank because Intracorp defaulted on their loan.
According to this article in the Seattle Times, it is possible to have a hybrid condo/apartment. If you want to avoid this at Olive 8 it should be written into your purchase agreement with RC Hedreen.
http://blog.seattletimes.nwsource.com/elizabethrhodes/2008/01/q_what_happens_when_youve.html
February 23rd, 2009 at 5:49 pm
@Jeff – If the contract does not obligate you to use Countrywide, then you can approach any other source for a loan that you want; i.e. from your contract’s perspective, I doubt your contract limits you to a single financing option.
These other sources may not approve your loan request, which is their option, but that’s not O8′s doing. Your options – as per the contract you signed – have their own options.
What’s fair is subjective – the O8 developers didn’t create the economic mess, either, after all. By this point they’ve put a lot more money into your unit than you have, and presumably they’re still spending their money in preparation to deliver on their contracted obligations to you. The current situation sucks for both sides. It’s certainly not what either side had in mind a couple years ago, but some gambles don’t pay off.
But going back to your note, where you seemed to connect financing options to getting a lawyer involved in getting deposits back, what does the contract say? If they’re not obligated to provide you with any options, then it’s not fair to expect them to provide you with more than one option.
Ultimately it’s the language in the contract you agreed to that matters, not the 2-bit opinions offered up some blog.
February 23rd, 2009 at 5:57 pm
What Reader posted is true, but those were very different circumstances. Parc actually sold fairly well for the # of units in the building, and those are closed sales. 2 dozen remaining out of nearly 200 units is a success by almost any measure. As for Expo 62 and Domaine, those were both fairly low end buildings, and both had very little pre-sales activity. Hence their switch to apartments. I belive at least for Domaine, it was always considered a backup to go apartment if the units didnt sell well (which they didnt, likely due to their location).
Olive 8 is at something like 75-80% pre-sales, including most of the lower floors. Last time I was in the sales center it looked like mainly the units still unsold were on the highest few floors (with the highest prices) that were added when they switched from a 36 to a 39 floor building.
February 24th, 2009 at 1:07 am
I am curious how the developer/williams-marketing will deal with 50 ton elephant in the room at the buyers event on thursday… will they completely ignore it like the last one? This should be interesting.
I have been wondering for like a year why more 08 buyers dont end up on blogs like this, I only see like 10 or so. I have been scouring the internet for months looking for company for my misery
I for one wonder what the hell everyone else is going to do.
February 24th, 2009 at 10:14 am
Hopefully we’ll have a group of buyers at our separate buyer’s meet-up. I’m trying to secure a location for this weekend, possibly Sunday. I have had 14 buyers contact me so far (3 are out of state but want to participate).
Email me at olive8buyer@gmail.com if you’re interested in attending. This meeting will be for olive 8 buyers ONLY and any representatives from Williams or the developer will not be allowed to attend.
February 24th, 2009 at 10:22 am
I wont be able to make it to O8 event this thursday and also our own buyer meeting this sunday, but would love to hear about it. would you please share with us afterward?
February 24th, 2009 at 11:44 am
Things have changed a great deal since the October event such as the introduction of the new Fannie May regulations (additional fees, ect) and the unwillingness of banks besides Countrywide to lend.
Thursday will be interesting. Their reps no doubt read this blog and have an idea of what’s going on inside people’s heads. We’ll hear “there’s no way this is going apartments, the developer has strong financials and can tough it out, there are a lot of buyers waiting by the sidelines to purchase when reservations fall through, everyone is very excited to close, we haven’t heard of many dropping out, this is a one of a kind project” and who knows what else.
It’s sad to see this project end up like this. I was so excited about it even just six months ago. I really feel for those on the first several floors. Those halfway and up will have at least an idea of how many units have been able to close and whether they should bother to close as well. Again, I see this building as 33% occupied when all is done.
Get the word out about the separate buyer’s meetup on Thursday.
February 24th, 2009 at 12:34 pm
Condo developers in San Francisco have reduced prices from 15-30% this year. The 60 story Millenium Tower in SOMA is comparable to Olive 8. They cut prices 15% in January. Existing buyers were refunded.
http://www.socketsite.com/archives/2009/01/the_socketsite_scoop_millennium_cuts_prices_15_across_t.html
Lower end SF condo’s like Cubix are discounting up to 30% just to get to the sales level they need for FHA financing.
http://www.socketsite.com/archives/2009/01/cubix_766_harrison_officially_cuts_up_to_295_for_stimul.html
February 24th, 2009 at 1:08 pm
We won’t see prices drop at Olive8. No way, no how.
Even with a 15% drop it’d be still very tough to close.
February 24th, 2009 at 3:50 pm
Interesting articles Iceman. Although I doubt it will happen, it might actually be in Olive 8′s best interest to offer a retroactive discout to buyers. If they are concerned about a fair number of them backing out, and that the market prices would be significantly lower than the difference between the pre-sales and the earnest money (or even equal), it would make sense for them to pre-emptively discount to retain sales. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush sort of thing…(and maybe three in this market). The question is, are they that smart?
February 25th, 2009 at 12:40 pm
Developers aren’t ignorant of the trends. Live Historic’s Marlborough condo’s on First Hill went into default last week and the bank will auction them off. Added to the Intracorp foreclosureof Domaine, that makes two condo projects that have failed in as many months. Vulcan has already reacted by lowering prices at Veer.
I think a minimum 15% discount is in the air for the Olive 8 buyers meeting tomorrow.
February 25th, 2009 at 1:57 pm
Those two projects are vastly different than Olive8.
Olive8 has a very strong number of units already reserved; those two mentioned above never got over 10%.
My guess is the only concession we’ll maybe see is that they’ll end up paying for some closing costs or a rate buy down for a couple years. But that’s a HUGE maybe. There is no way they’re going to discount the units even a buck with the reservations already so high.
February 25th, 2009 at 7:33 pm
I agree with o8buyer2′s assesment, the developer will most likeley not make any concessions, however I think they will regret it. They probably regret switching contractors mid-job, they probably regret adding three more floors. They did these things to make more money, but they just ened up delaying things and are probably going to end up costing them dearly. the original completion date was well over a year ago, a time when most people would/could have closed.
thank you hedreen for being greedy.
February 26th, 2009 at 11:15 am
if Olive8 is smart, they should give their buyers some discount. helping their buyers closing on their units in turn helping them not have to deal with massive buyers walking away. it’s a win-win for both sides.
February 26th, 2009 at 2:05 pm
FYI – Received word that Olive 8 has applied for Fannie Mae’s PERS review, which if approved, should open Fannie Mae backed financing to other lenders. The review process takes about 2 weeks.
February 26th, 2009 at 2:10 pm
Dear Olive 8 Homeowner,
In these challenging and often confusing lending times I wanted to update you on our status at Olive 8 and to clear up some misconceptions about Fannie Mae loan requirements and their relationship to the Olive 8 project.
Fannie Mae is one of the largest buyers of mortgages in the United States . They have recently instituted an approval process known as Project Eligibility Review Service, or PERS, that is a universal approval allowing ANY proposed lender to sell their loan to Fannie Mae without making a separate application as long as the loan meets Fannie Mae loan specific guidelines (i.e. limited to applicable loan amounts, etc.). This approval would eliminate the need of each lender to seek separate approval of the project for each proposed loan as required under the previous program.
The PERS program would provide a possible expansion of the number of lenders that could provide financing for Olive 8 buyers. Because that would benefit Olive 8 buyers, we are pursuing PERS approval from Fannie Mae. This approval must be sought from Fannie Mae by a particular lender and not by the developer. We are therefore working closely with our preferred lender, Countrywide, in collecting the necessary information and preparing the detailed application and documentation. We expect that it will be filed with Fannie Mae in the next few weeks. We hope that Fannie Mae approval will occur soon thereafter.
In the meantime, any lender desiring to make a “qualifying loan” can still follow the current practice of in house project approval on the project and we understand that several lenders other than Countrywide have done so successfully.
Not all buyers or borrowers are or should necessarily be concerned about Fannie Mae guidelines. Fannie May only buys loans that are within the current loan limit of $567,500 (this applies to King County ). However, it is our understanding that the lending market is placing some importance on Fannie Mae approval guidelines irrespective of the loan amount. I hope this explanation helps to clear up any misunderstanding that you may have about this subject.
Since the opening of Hyatt at Olive 8 we are more enthusiastic than ever about the Olive 8 project and the unique value it provides to our owners. I recently read in a January 31, 2009 Gardner/Johnson report that Built GreenTM multi-family housing units in the Seattle market appreciated 8% in 2008 while non Built GreenTM homes in that same period lost 4% of their value. Olive 8’s even more stringent pending LEEDTM Silver certification presumably will deliver equivalent or even greater market value resilience, particularly when coupled with the incredible owner benefits associated with our location above the Hyatt at Olive 8 and it’s significant hotel amenities.
Best Regards,
David Thyer, President, Olive 8 LLC
February 26th, 2009 at 2:29 pm
Does anyone actually believe that LEED propaganda?
This is good news, however with closings set to start within the next couple weeks the first batch will be SOL. Or will O8 push back the closing schedule to accommodate this?
Walk-thrus begin next week for 18+19.
February 26th, 2009 at 2:33 pm
That’s the same email letter I got today from Olive8. Thanks for posting it John. Can’t wait to hear what they have to say in tomorrow event.
February 26th, 2009 at 2:40 pm
That is very good news indeed.
o8buyer2 – I believe that closings were already pushed back, supposedly about a month or so from the last update. So, first should be end of March if I recall. Im guessing we will get the final, formal schedule tonight.
condogirl – the event is tonight
February 26th, 2009 at 2:40 pm
i think you mean tonight
February 26th, 2009 at 3:18 pm
oh YES tonight!
February 26th, 2009 at 3:57 pm
Hello O8 buyers,
The separate Olive8 Buyers Meet-up has been scheduled. Email me for details.
This meeting will be for O8 reservation holders only!
olive8buyer@gmail.com
February 26th, 2009 at 11:45 pm
I wasn’t able to make it tonight.
How were the model homes? Details!
February 27th, 2009 at 8:18 am
Model homes were not open for tour yet since they didnt receive occupancy from the city yet. Should be very soon it seems.
The rest of the building was exceptional. Very high-end, and definitely has exceeded my expectations. The pool and spa are are quite wonderful, as is the fitness room. They have a contract for new fitness equipment every 2 years to keep everything up to date.
We were able to tour various hotel rooms, including the presidential suite, which is about 1600 sq ft apparently, and felt just like a condo (minus the kitchn of course). Very nicely done. Thyer admitted they wish now they handt added the 3 additional floors because of the delays it incurred.
Overall, the event was good. Most people I talked too seemed upbeat despite the current economy. Everyone agreed the building is going to be fantastic.
February 27th, 2009 at 10:46 am
Building might be great, if you can absorb massive asset price depreciation. Dow at 7000, banks going broke due to too much lending to speculators and unqualified buyers (WAMU, next Citi and BAC which are basically government owned). House of cards to say the least.
Its just like buying a new car, take the keys and lose 30% immediately.
February 27th, 2009 at 2:03 pm
no model homes? wasn’t that the purpose of the entire event? guess i don’t feel that bad about not making it then.
any news about lending?
February 27th, 2009 at 3:17 pm
The people on the lower floors ( like me ) really have it much worse since a big factor in value will be how many people close. We should get a gift basket or something! …oops i forgot …they wont make any concessions!
I still felt like there was 50 ton elephant in the room at the event. I guess the overall atmosphere was positive. I wanted to yell “who is actually gonna close in this market!!!” during the speaches, but I think inciting a riot is against the law.
February 27th, 2009 at 3:35 pm
No one has any more input on the meeting last night? I wasn’t able to make it, but am looking forward to seeing the models when they open even though I wont be able to close. It will probably just piss me off even more!
February 27th, 2009 at 7:05 pm
They said the models should be open in a couple weeks. It should be located on the 18th or 19th floor. They will be hosting another buyer’s event in March.
I don’t think a majority of those in attendance were condo buyers. The party was for the hotel’s grand opening. The people in attendance included the development team, the Hyatt’s management team, various media outlets, and event planners. I don’t think this was a “buyer’s” event. They just wanted to show off the hotel to the media and potential clients.
See you all at the “buyer’s only” meet-up tomorrow. Email me with questions.
olive8buyer@gmail.com
March 2nd, 2009 at 1:16 pm
Any news on the buyer only event???
March 2nd, 2009 at 3:02 pm
so walk thru’s were scheduled to start this week – still the case?
March 3rd, 2009 at 12:26 am
as far as the buyers only event, roughly 80% of those in attendance are planning NOT to close.
March 3rd, 2009 at 12:11 pm
condoboy, that would be 6 of the meager 8 of you that showed up, right.?
March 3rd, 2009 at 1:07 pm
can anyone give me a recap on the “buyer only” meeting on Sunday? any interesting news?
March 3rd, 2009 at 1:11 pm
Condoman,
Actually, there were 10 buyers that showed up. Only 2 of them were planning on closing on their units.
Besides the 10 that showed up, another 10 emailed me and told me they were not able to make it to the meeting. Of those 10, only 2 of those indicated they were planning on trying to close. A few of those 10 had moved out of state due to work.
So my unscientific poll of buyers indicates that only 4 of 20 buyers are planning on attempting to close.
The meeting indicated that even the buyers that were considering closing, were concerned about what the developer’s plans would be in the event that a significant portion of the building was not sold. Would they be auctioned off? Turned into apartments? Price reduction??
Olive8buyer
March 3rd, 2009 at 1:38 pm
Put me in the “I’d like to close but probably can’t so I’ll hire a lawyer to get as much of my 30k back as I can” group
I’ll be surprised that if half of the people who have reserved actually close.
March 3rd, 2009 at 1:56 pm
so there is no action item after the meeting? i think we buyers should come up with a plan to ask Olive8 for the price reduction. The condo market has dropped more in value dramatically everywhere; it’s not fair to close on the price listed 3 years ago.
March 3rd, 2009 at 2:17 pm
We will NOT see any price drops. Let’s say I reserved a unit on floor 30 with a price of 500k in Feb 2006. A year later the same floor plan was reserved on floor 29 with a price of 600k. How do you propose price drops would work in a situation like that?
March 3rd, 2009 at 4:16 pm
I am very suspect of why condoman would try to minimize the meeting. I was not trying to hide the number of people in attendance, Even though it was a fairly small gathering, the fact that 80% of people are not closing is incredibly relevant. So condoman, are you a buyer? If you loose 200k of your “meager” money because of lost value, will you be ok with that? I think most posters/buyers are here trying to get information to help make a smart decision and possibly influence the developer to make concessions,however unlikely.
March 3rd, 2009 at 5:15 pm
Olive 8 will be just fine. I am a buyer who just got approved on a loan. I’m not a millionaire, I am on a lower floor, and I reserved 3 years ago. I think this blog needs an injection of some positivity. Read this entry for starts. At worst, it says we’re not screwed:
http://seattlecondosandlofts.com/2009/02/january-2009-seattle-condo-market-update
I’m not saying everything is OK, but I am projecting that OLIVE 8 WILL BE JUST FINE. Don’t blame Olive 8 that we’re in a huge economic downturn.
A few of you on this thread are really pissed off about your difficulties in closing- and I sympathize with you. But some of your extrapolations are outlandish.
March 3rd, 2009 at 5:19 pm
Oh, and 10 BUYERS is not a fair assessment of all the buyers. 8 out of 10 people not closing really isn’t very relevant. Once that 80% figure represents 40 out of 50, then I’ll give it some traction.
March 3rd, 2009 at 7:21 pm
I am really happy for you olive8willbejustfine, that you have such faith in condo market. Me and few others don’t have that faith. Housing market is tanking and it’s still far from bottom at least 12-18 months by some experts. It just don’t make sense to buy any real estate right now.
March 3rd, 2009 at 8:54 pm
The Seattle market, as a whole, lost between 5 and 7 percent of its value in 2008. That includes all product type, the worst of which is definitely NOT Olive 8. Between the start of reservations and today, the Seattle market has gained, in aggregate, 20 – 30% in value.
First and foremost, there are NOT many properties for which to compare sales prices to Olive 8 in order to assess a potential “discount”. The other new condo hotel is Four Seasons and Olive 8 buyers aren’t paying eight million dollars per condo. 1521 is totally different with non-traditional layouts and much larger square footages. Using broad generalizations like, “the housing market has declined” to describe the situation at Olive 8 accounts for developments in places like Arizona where the real estate market was a self fulfilling prophecy. We have had speculative buyers in our market, but not near the degree as other areas of the country. As far as the downtown market goes, the weaker product has already been hit. (Domaine, Expo 62, etc.) Again, this product is not even comparable to Olive 8.
Some of the units on the lower floors at Olive 8 sold for around 500 dollars per square foot. Throughout 2008, other developments were seeing resales for far more than these prices. (Check resales at 5th and Madison and even 2200) If you can’t close, it’s your own fault for being overleveraged. Truth be told, you probably need 10 percent down to close. You can still get financing and you don’t have to go through Countrywide. Call a mortgage broker and check on it, I did. If you have had enough income for the past two years to buy at Olive 8, you should have saved enough rainy day money to cover the “increase” in down payment requirements.
Olive 8 is the best new construction product to come to the downtown Seattle market from a value and cost standpoint, maybe ever. You are not going to be able to flip your unit in six months and turn much of a profit unless you are patient or you bought the least expensive home in the building (this is a function of a graduated pricing process that lasted for a number of years). Most of the people who are actually closing are not on this blog for two reasons a) they are planning on living there for more than 12 to 18 months, your words not mine, and can handle some uncertainty in the equity of their unit or b) they have the liquidity or cash flow to hold the unit throughout the downturn and make their profit after a number of years. Regarding an annualized return and maybe an internal rate of return, this makes their yield lower due to the time value of money, but they will still have a positive yield on the investment due to their ability to hold without dire consequences. That is unless you believe that the market will go down forever, which might be true since many people believed that the market would go up forever. Everyone who put down their earnest money should have calculated changes in the market, both good and bad. You should have run cash flows based on your earnings and savings and planned for a best and worst case scenario. Traditional real estate investors know that buying in a down market can be a good strategy and they have enough money to buy and hold, which is the typical way to earn a return on property.
Buyers signed a contract for a purchase price that was not contingent upon market conditions, the fear factor for some of you seems to be overtaking your rationality. If you did not calculate the risk of being unable to close and didn’t have 30 grand to lose when you signed up, you shouldn’t have signed up. Losing 30 grand is a bummer, but it happens to investors all the time.
March 3rd, 2009 at 9:00 pm
I felt really bad because I was not able to make it to the meeting. Some people posting on this blog who are able to close on their units are oozing with arrogance. I have a high credit score, solid job and earn 6 figures but I am still leaning towards not closing because the continued decline of our economy with no end in sight makes me nervous. For those of you who are able to close good for you but I do not see any reason or justification for your rude and insensitive comments. I don’t think anyone is blaming Olive 8. People I think are using this blog to seek comfort and sympathy from other buyers who are able to relate to the difficulties some people are expeiencing related to financial challenges due to the current conditions of our economy. There is nothing wrong for people to explore how to get back their hard-earned deposits. Just look at the DOW it is at a dangerously low level that financial experts did not expect they would ever see in their lifetime.
March 3rd, 2009 at 9:14 pm
to olive8willbejustfine, I couldnt make it to the “buyer-only” meeting, but the info is still very interesting to me.
I would like to know what 40 or 50 buyers plan to do as well, but just like polls during an election: they cant interview every american, so they take a sample, and extrapolate. So 80% of 10 people is not perfect, but respectfuly I feel it more relevant than saying “olive8 will be just fine”
I for one place no blame on olive8, the developer, or anyone, but that doesnt change the fact that these condos may in fact be worth less in the future than they are today, many people may no longer qualify, and what will the developer do with unsold inventory?…for me these are serious questions. I too am not a millionaire and I too got approved for a loan. I respect your opinion, and I would like to know why you think olive8 will be fine, and what extrapolations on this blog are “outlandish”?
… I usually discredit posts where people are attacking each other personally, so I apologize if I offended anyone)
I think alot of olive8 buyers may come across this site, so we should try and be objective, and nice too I suppose
I would love to be positive too, so give me something to be positive about?
March 3rd, 2009 at 9:32 pm
I got in early at a GREAT price, however my concern lies in the unsold inventory. Not the price I locked in at.
The prices at Olive8 have risen to the level and quality of the project. Prices are today, at a minimum, $800/sq ft. They will not go down due to their “price guarantee” a year ago.
Units are not moving. They won’t be moving anytime soon. I’ve been told that in the last year that the number of reservations has DECREASED due to people dropping out and not enough new sales to balance out that number. That scares the heck out of me.
Once the building is finished closing and 40-50% of the units are still unsold, prospective buyers will be unable to secure financing in a building that is only 50% occupied.
I just worry this building turning to apartment/condo when the remaining units can’t be sold. It’s going to be a very, very scary situation.
March 3rd, 2009 at 11:31 pm
With regards to the Price Guarantee, how long is the price really guaranteed? What happens after everyone closes, and there are still 30% of the units still available? Will Hedreen still “Guarantee” the price? Or will he start to drop the prices like Rollin Street? Do you believe that the Olive 8 project will be immune from this? My prediction is of the units currently under contract (80%), 30% will not go through with the purchase. At 50% sold, prices will begin to fall due to the carrying costs of those units. I don’t have any hard data to support this, just my thoughts.
March 3rd, 2009 at 11:36 pm
RealityCheck, Thanks for the summary, that was exactly what we discussed in the “buyers” only meeting. People are concerned and rightfully so. I don’t think it’s in anyone’s place especially yours to be lecturing on their financial situation. Just because Olive8 is a great building doesn’t mean it’s a great investment given the current economic situation. BTW, were you at the meeting? ; )
March 4th, 2009 at 6:15 am
Thanks Ampy Contreras!!!
I do have solid job and high income and like everybody else I DO concern about this economy & my investment. I am not surprised that comments like that are injected by Olive8 agents/people for their marketing purposes. Otherwise they are on their dreamland or ignorant about this horrible recession that we are in. I’m just saying. The Dow went down below 7000 and experts predict it will go down to 3000. most banks are in trouble and will soon be owned by the government. Most people wont qualify for their loans, what the developers will do with the large inventory??? The economy is getting worse. Reality Check, you need to do some reality check yourself!!!
March 4th, 2009 at 9:33 am
Condo prices are down, both new and used. If unsold O8 units are not re-priced, it is unlikely that they will sell. Check out this flip attempt over at Cosmo:
http://www.urbnlivn.com/2007/10/01/buy-unit-3102-at-cosmo-and-get-a-benz/#more-544
Originally on the market for well over a million, now – $699K.
While it is a tough nut to swallow, it seems like it may be smart to let the “option” expire and walk away. Better pricing on other condos are available. And/or O8 prices will likely come down.
Good lesson for all of us to insist on language to include in future Purchase / Sales agreements regarding minimun # of units sold and closed.
March 4th, 2009 at 10:14 am
RealityCheck,
You make some good points, but you don’t need to lecture everyone on finances just because you feel like you will be the only one paying HOA dues when you close your unit. I think it is great that you are able to close and will be able to enjoy the amazing building and it’s amenities. I am not blaming Olive8 or the developer for the situation that many of us are in, as it is not their fault. I wish things were the way they were back in 2005, none of us would be on this blog right now looking for help on how to get earnest money back.
I also have the same concerns many of the fellow bloggers on here have, which is that this will be an apartment complex at some point. It will be years before people have the confidence to go out and buy expensive high-rise condos they way they were back in 06.
March 4th, 2009 at 12:47 pm
Reality check,
Good points. Although I feel bad for anyone who is losing your earnest money, your last paragraph is spot on.
March 4th, 2009 at 1:35 pm
Maybe I’m just dense, but I don’t think anyone is saying they don’t deserve to lose their earnest money. We all signed a contract, knew what we were getting ourselves into and don’t feel as if Olive8 has “screwed” us out of anything. I also don’t expect any concessions from the developer (lower prices, ect).
The only way we stand a chance of getting some or all of that earnest money back (without lawyers) is by banding together and refusing to close.
The more of us that refuse to close, the better.
March 4th, 2009 at 6:57 pm
RealityCheck is a representative of the developer!
March 4th, 2009 at 7:32 pm
I knew it !!! So is “olive8willbejustfine”
March 4th, 2009 at 7:33 pm
my husband and i went to the buyers event last week and met with the bank on Monday. the buyers event was nice and the building sure looks beautiful but Williams and the developer are in denial, and delusional by ignoring the price problem. condo developers all over the country are making concessions. we don’t see why seattle should be any different, regardless of any price guarantee they offered in the past.
we are already in the hole for the earnest money and we were planning on a large cash component plus a small mortgage. the problem is we will be paying way above the market rate at olive 8, and it’s likely our cash would be locked into the condo for at least five years.
so we made the decision last night to walk away from our olive 8 contract when closing time comes (we are on a middle floor so it is probably still a few months away). it is better to lose $40k than put much more than that at risk, and we already lost a lot on the stock market in the last six months. we are treating olive 8 like a bad stock investment, and looking to see if we can get a schedule D capital loss on the forfeited earnest money.
good luck to everyone else.
March 4th, 2009 at 7:58 pm
I would have never thought that these people (RealityCheck and olive8willbejustfine) pretending to be buyers would deliberately misrepresent themselves and flat out lie just for thier personal selfish interest. If they are unethically able to commit this act of deceit on this blog I wonder what these people are capable of doing when we start dealing with them involving Olive 8. I hope they realize the potential implications of their malcious act to Olive 8. People on this blog as I have said are just trying to seek comfort from other people experiencing financial difficulties.
March 4th, 2009 at 8:15 pm
I’m in the same boat AJ so I feel your pain. I also had about $40k in earnest money and lost so much in my other investment accounts. So coming up with a down payment will be tough. When it’s time for me to close I may also have to walk away…it is frustrated.
March 4th, 2009 at 9:22 pm
I’m in the same boat as you two.
Due to market loses I’m unable to come up with the amount required for the down payment. I could afford the payments with the 5% down, no problem, however the banks are being a big stinker about having such a large down payment.
I’ll be walking away, but won’t be letting O8 know so until the last minute.
March 4th, 2009 at 11:58 pm
I guess I’ll need to revise the buyer’s meet-up results. Now that AJ has decided that they won’t be closing, that means 9 out of 10 of those that attended were not planning on closing.
Also, of the 10 buyers that attended, I believe that 8-9 of those in attendance, purchased on the very first weekend Olive8 units were available. So you know the pricing they received was the best pricing available.
March 5th, 2009 at 12:12 am
I’ve put together another blog that will allow olive8 buyers to discuss their various options. It will help separate the buyers that plan on closing with those that are pretty sure they aren’t closing. I think it will be more productive for all parties. Check it out at:
olive8.blogspot.com
March 5th, 2009 at 3:32 am
in all fairness, how does anyone KNOW that “realitycheck” and “olive8willbe fine” are representing the developer?
lets not get too paranoid
March 5th, 2009 at 7:37 am
I like the idea of having a separate blog for legitimate buyers. From a very reliable source and I am not being paranoid. Representatives of Olive 8 and representatives from the developer are constantly watching the exchange of opinions on this blog. They have too because this blog is giving them a feel on how to strategize and deal with buyers at the time of closing.
March 5th, 2009 at 8:32 am
I also like the idea of a separate blog for only buyers. But how do you filter out the buyers and the O8 representatives?
I’m up for any ideas/options/suggestions on how to get my $40k earnest money back or even half of it back I would be happy…or we buyers can try to get the developer to re-evaluate their pricing to match with the current rate as other developers else where have already done so…
March 5th, 2009 at 9:58 am
This will be my last post on this subject. The thread has devolved into attacks and accusations. The true reality is that these discussions are pointless in that everyone is anonymous, and there is no way to verify anyones identity or purpose. Every positive post could be an O8 employee or the developer, and every negative post could be the same person using different names, or a disgruntled former O8 employee. There is no way to tell, and there is likely significant game theory going on. Out of all of these posts, we haven’t learned any actual, verifiable information.
For the real buyers, I wish everyone the best in deciding what they are going to do. Everyone will need to make their own decision on this, and it is likely going to be a tough one.
I do agree that if the O8 powers-that-be are paying attention, they will want to offer a significant price concession to all buyers, and rapidly, before closing begins.
March 5th, 2009 at 10:17 am
We are still trying to “sell our assignment”, but most people just think we are crazy. We are prepared to walk away because we feel that if we were to try and close it would be YEARS before we would see any of the cash back that we would be required to put down. We dont want to hire an attorney because I dont feel the chance of success is very high and the last thing I want is to be saddled with 5k in attorney fees. If there is someone out there who uses an attorney and has some success, please let me know. I would like to just get even half of my earnest money back.
I dont blame Olive 8 at all for the situation. I love the building, it is first class, but I just cant financially do it right now. Maybe in 5 years and maybe 5 years ago, but now it’s just not feasible.
I sincerely hope it works out for everyone who decides to close and hope that for the rest of us there is some sort of concessions made.
March 5th, 2009 at 10:19 am
They way I see it is that most buyers probably bought the maximum they could afford at the time. The lower floors are most likly the ones that will not qualify. If buyers on the lower floors do not end up closing then the buyers on the middle and upper floors if the can qualify or not may choose not to close. If I was the seller I would do whatever it takes to make sure the lower floors do close.
With that said I do think Olive 8 is an amazing building. I think if you do plan to hold 5 years or more you cant go wrong. I can not plan that far out and am choosing not to close. The developer gambled on 3 extra floors and now they are paying for it. It sucks for all parties involved that a project like this would end this way.
Do some research on the Trump Tower in Las Vegas. The building was complete last April. Trump buildings always sell well. 100% were presold. 30% closed. That was before financing was a problem. I know Las Vegas is a different market but it is probably the best building in the city. Olive 8 I think is one of the best buildings for the money but add the financing issue on top of it and it does not look good.
March 5th, 2009 at 11:03 am
Ampy and condogirl,
Even the new blog will not be able to filter out the developer or Williams Marketing reps. However, it will allow us to discuss potential strategies depending on your situation. Those that plan on closing can share problems that they found during the walk-through. They can band together and request concessions.
And for those that are definite they are not going to close, they can discuss potential options for getting their earnest deposit back. I can tell you that I’ve received emails from buyers that have hired attorneys. What’s their angle? Maybe other buyers can join and defray the costs in case their is litigation.
Closing dates are quickly approaching and the more information we can share, the better.
olive8.blogspot.com
March 5th, 2009 at 1:38 pm
I am another owner that just discovered this blog and do not plan to close on 29th FL. Is there any meeting planned for all of us with deposits down to discuss a common position to take with the developer? I think that should happen right away, maybe to late
March 5th, 2009 at 8:49 pm
I don’t think we have any leverage as we are backing out of purchase and sales agreement. They might have issue even for trying to find buyers for our reserved units because that will take away buyer from Olive 8, that’s if we could find buyer in current market… Only option I see is to talk to lawyer and see if they will work for % of money refunded.
I might reconsider backing out if Olive 8 makes drastic price reduction, which I doubt they will.
If someone have good plan/idea, please share.
Thanks,
March 6th, 2009 at 1:01 am
mike v,
they already had a meeting. there were 9 or 10 people, and most of them are not closing.
March 6th, 2009 at 1:02 am
to those that think this blog is no good, Most all blogs are anonymous, there are probably some posters with hidden agendas, but it is comforting to come across it and see other people in the same boat ( it was for me), and this blog will a be catalyst for meetings, discussions, and hopefully a response from the developer. I would bet it is having some effect. It already spawned one meeting.
obviously williams marketing and the developer are reading this, and if they think it is one person making many posts, then I fear that will be another mistake for them. I am not attacking them and I dont blame them at all, the building is AWESOME! Whether it is justified or not, people are scared sh__tless right now. some will need a compelling reason to close.
March 6th, 2009 at 11:16 am
if you want people to post on that olive8 blog, you’ll have to allow anon posting
March 6th, 2009 at 1:01 pm
Sorry about that. The default settings required you to sign-in before commenting. I’ve now changed the settings so that you can post anonymously.
Lets shift our comments to the olive 8 blog.
olive8.blogspot.com
March 6th, 2009 at 4:45 pm
olive8buyer, I will use your blog, but I am curious, what is wrong with posting here, It is already so well established, it will most likely be the blog people find when googling info about olive8, and Im sure Ben doesnt mind the extra traffic ( or does he?). I worry about loosing people by fragmenting.
March 6th, 2009 at 5:22 pm
Ben actually emailed me and was supportive of forming a blog for olive8 buyers. Thanks Ben!
I thought having a separate blog might be more effective since there really are two groups of buyers:
1. Those that are planning on closing still
and
2. Those that are not planning on closing
A separate blog could let us organize our efforts a little more effectively since the needs of each group are different. But if everyone prefers to stay here, I’m ok with that.
March 6th, 2009 at 5:28 pm
I think if the new blog takes over we will no longer pick up any new potential buyers. I suggest sticking with this one that is already established.
March 7th, 2009 at 11:43 am
Anybody had a walk-through yet? According to the Olive8 calendar, 18-19 should be complete by tomorrow but only one unit has time reserved through today and other units on these floors have appointments in later weeks that are reserved for higher floors.
Comments on previous posts:
Which blog?
So, this seems to be the blog that most want to stick with? I think anybody that finds this one can find the other one with reference to it here! How did everybody find this one? I used a google search myself.
Pricing
Early buyers did not receive a price guarnatee, nor did they have a clause to share profits in event of a flip. For those who bought later and received a price guarantee, it is only in effect through your closing date. Any price reductions will probably happen later, after those of us presale buyers close. There were some significant price increases since reservations started; I think that any price reductions would be to bring these inflated prices back down to be more in line with early sales prices. Otherwise, there will be a wide scale financing challenge due to appraisals not aligning with purchase prices.
March 7th, 2009 at 4:16 pm
I think the sales center said that all closings and walk-throughs are at least a month behind schedule compared to the previous schedule released a few buyer meetings ago. Which might actually be a good thing at this point to give everyone more time to figure out what to do.
March 7th, 2009 at 11:32 pm
Yup, figure out how we could get our earnest money back!
March 8th, 2009 at 12:55 pm
Would you please share with us? much appreciated!
March 8th, 2009 at 11:14 pm
Had my walk-through today and did not know that there was a blog until I was asked by Carrie if was reading the blog on the internet. So I came home and fired up google. Just wanted to say hello and that the building looks nice, it is still not done…hopefully I will meet some of you in the future.
March 8th, 2009 at 11:41 pm
Like Tim S, this will also be my last posting, mainly because the paranoid people on this post have accused me of being an Olive 8 representative. I AM a buyer, I LOVE the building, and my wife and I will enjoy living there for a very long time- on the 24th floor, by the way.
To all of you who cannot close, I am so very sorry about your situation. This economy has been so damaging in so many ways to so many people.
To condogirl, shame on you for spreading propaganda on this blog. I was attempting to inject a bit of positivity to balance out the negativity. Isn’t that why this blog is here? To share our thoughts?
Good luck to everyone.
March 8th, 2009 at 11:42 pm
Like Tim S, this will also be my last posting, mainly because the paranoid people on this post have accused me of being an Olive 8 representative. I AM a buyer, I LOVE the building, and my wife and I will enjoy living there for a very long time- on the 24th floor, by the way.
Good luck to everyone.
March 9th, 2009 at 7:17 am
I know of a lawyer that has been handling Earnest Money Deposit cases. His name is Stephen J. Crane of Crane Dunham PLLC. Good luck.
March 9th, 2009 at 5:08 pm
1803Buyer, When exactly did you have your walk through again? Was it the 8th as you mentioned on your posting? If so, I did not know the developer schedules walk through on Sundays. Hmmm. If so, they must be anxious to close these units. So please comment, what was not completed – your unit or general common areas such as party room, guest suite, etc. Please also share your thoughts on the finish product – is it as nice as presentation center protrayed it would be???
March 11th, 2009 at 12:43 am
OLIVE8 BUYERS SHOULD WATCH THIS VIDEO
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10WoQZKZkNs&feature=related
March 11th, 2009 at 12:45 am
wow
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10WoQZKZkNs&feature=related
March 16th, 2009 at 4:38 pm
This blog has been slow lately. I’d like to suggest everyone checkout the Olive8 Buyer’s blog at…..
http://www.olive8.blogspot.com
March 19th, 2009 at 4:09 pm
Lots of recent posts at the Olive8 Buyer’s blog.
http://www.olive8.blogspot.com
March 19th, 2009 at 7:49 pm
olive8buyer – i tried to post comment on your blog but it didn’t work…do i have to sign in?
March 22nd, 2009 at 2:36 pm
condogirl,
You do not need to sign in to comment. You just need to choose “Anonymous” or type in your name.
Some people have commented that they’ve had difficulty posting (have to comment twice before it would work), but I haven’t had that issue.
After you’ve commented in the “Post a Comment” section, click on “Comment As” and choose either “Anonymous” or “Name/URL”.
Let me know if it continues to have problems.
Olive8Buyer
March 23rd, 2009 at 11:21 am
Olive8Buyer, i tried to post on your blog again but still got ‘error on page’ message. Anyway, please include me in your only buyer event. I think it’s a great idea to seek Attorney to help us and splitting the fee…more cost effective. At this point, I just want to get my earnest money back; even half of it would be great.
March 31st, 2009 at 8:51 am
I am going to close my unit. I do not have a choice for I have foolishly put too much money in the upgrade.
My only concern is what would happen if too many units become vacant. Will the builder rent them out? If so, what are the impact and what can the buyers do? And secondly, will the association fee be increased to cover the coast of the vacant units? What can we buyers do for that?
Thanks in advance for any comments
March 31st, 2009 at 4:07 pm
typically you will not have to pay any association fees until the building is 70% sold ( which could take a while). keep in mind association fees almost always go up in a new building after the first year once they figure what the operating costs will actually be. as far as unit sbeing rented out, it could adversly effect value only because typically buyers prefer a mostly owner occupied building, however I believe rentals are limited to 5% by the homeowners association. Hedreen will be part owner in the building so perhaps they can overturn that 5% and rent as many as they want… only time will tell how all this going to shake out.
good discussions for o8 buyers at http://www.olive.blogspot.com
April 8th, 2009 at 6:19 pm
Anyone else having mixed feelings after their walkthru?
my #1 biggest complaint is privacy. the adjoining unit can easily look directly into my bedroom from their deck! this is on any of the floor plans where the decks adjoin e.g. plans 03/04 and 06/07.
April 18th, 2009 at 10:35 am
Well i just closed and it went smoooooooth !!!
the appraisal came in $25k higher than my purchase price, the wlak thru and punch list were complete, and the concierge is FANTASTIC !!!
It is true that this may be too nice a building for some of you who can’t afford the luxury.
April 19th, 2009 at 9:53 am
Ok, Kool one, at this point we all know you just closed at Olive 8 and we’re happy for you. However, your last comment is a bit of an insult with regards to the building being too nice for those who can’t afford it? Not sure where you’re coming from but if you’re such a high roller, why didn’t you buy a two bedroom rather than the measely 1 bd you’re going around bragging in the blogs.
Those 1bd were the price point units and for the most part the low-end buyers. If you’re going to brag, make sure you got the right units to brag about.
April 19th, 2009 at 11:27 am
I agree. The comment of his at the end was out of line. When I read it I immediately showed it to my husband and asked: “Can you believe this pompous jerk?” Way to make people feel bad in these hard economic times. I hope your condo works out for you and feel sorry for your neighbors if this is really the way you feel. (That you are somehow better than others who can not afford the luxury that you can)
April 24th, 2009 at 8:16 am
I currently own a condo in Olive8 and although the real estate market is terrible, there was still a big enough price increase from when we purchased in 2006 that we should be ok if we look to sell our unit immediately. The unit below ours just sold for much more than we paid when we originally signed docs. The problem is closing the home now. I know for a fact Olive 8 will not let you out of your contract without forfeiting earnest money, I tried. So now we are hoping to close, and sell immediately.
*** I wish you luck on the “sell immediately” part.
April 24th, 2009 at 10:42 am
Reply to Oh Dear:
I would try and make very sure of that before you close. I thought the same thing. There is now the 09 plan lsited on MLS #29055419 for $375k that is a resale. I am 3 floors below this and paid more. I dont recall prices in 06 being this low.
Also read this article: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2009113376_condoclosings24.html
This part made me extremely nervous:
Thirteen Olive 8 units have closed so far. Thyer says closings should continue into July. “At this point, we’re still holding our prices,” he says. “But if the downturn continues, we may have to revisit that.”
April 25th, 2009 at 12:19 am
I feel sorry for you kool-one… on so many levels. I wish you the best.
April 28th, 2009 at 3:50 pm
Not happy with the building so far. finishes are far below my expectations and I don’t think the valuation is going to pan out. I also noticed #2209 on the MLS for $550 a square foot, which means I am already underwater.
With the poor market I’m thinking of walking away from my earnest money. Is it likely Hedreen will offer concessions to us suckers who bought in 2007, or am I out of luck?
May 2nd, 2009 at 7:12 pm
I’m a pre-sale buyer planning on not closing on my unit at Olive 8. It wasn’t an easy decision to make and I had several conversations with the folks at Olive 8. You can read my take and analysis on the deal at http://www.inspiredstartup.com/my-23750-mistake-at-olive-8/.
June 9th, 2009 at 10:30 pm
Back in January Condoboy and I discussed whether supposedly “airtight” contracts like Olive 8′s could be cracked. Well, we now know that it’s possible. My partner, Craig Blackmon, and I just won a case against the Washington Square condo project in Bellevue. Interestingly, it would appear that the same law firm that was involved in drafting Washington Square’s contracts was also involved in drafting Olive 8′s contracts and will also be representing both of them in litigation over those contracts.
Washington Square sued my client and the case was subject to mandatory arbitration. The bad news for WA Square was that the arbitrator agreed that its contract violated a federal law called the Interstate Land Sales Full Disclosure Act (“ILSA”). As a result my client was awarded 100% of his earnest money plus attorney’s fees and costs and interest. Unfortunately for all the other WA Square buyers, this ruling is not binding on any other buyer.
Olive 8′s contracts contain numerous similarities to WA Square’s so we continue to believe that Olive 8′s contracts are far from airtight. However, this blog comment is not intended as legal advice and should not be relied upon as such. If you have a contract with Olive 8, Washington Square, or any other condo developer and want to find out what your legal rights and obligations are you should contact a licensed attorney of your choice as soon as possible. Time is of the essence so do not delay.
If anyone would like to discuss their Olive 8 contract or to learn more about the group of clients my firm represents feel free to contact me at 206-357-4224 or marc@lawofficeofcraigblackmon.com.
For more information on ILSA go to the Dept. of Housing & Urban Development’s website at http://www.hud.gov/offices/hsg/ramh/ils/ilshome.cfm.
June 15th, 2009 at 12:29 pm
Have my unit closed about three weeks ago but not satisfied with the work. Very unprofessional. The CDW group in working with the construction company to redo the work but they seem just to do some minor work for the visual effect instead of completely redo the work. It is still not in moving condition yet and I do not know when it will be.
Location is great but the quality is totally unacceptable.
June 18th, 2009 at 9:01 am
That makes me feel better about my decision to pass (although not $40,000 better).
The close rate on the building is pretty bad according to the stats posted on olive8.blogspot.com…that enough is telling me it is a bad investment.
June 19th, 2009 at 10:47 am
Hello, has anyone worked with a lawyer and successfully got your earnest money back? Please post and help us out. Big thanks!
June 30th, 2009 at 10:32 am
Marc (above) makes some very good points about ILSFDA. Our law firm is also representing buyers in earnest money disputes with a number of condominium projects. I have drafted condominium documents for a number of local projects so I have experience with these types of matters. If you are interested in a consultation, feel free to call me at 206-438-3851 or send me an email at imants@lawhg.net.
Imants Holmquist
Holmquist & Gardiner, PLLC
imants@lawhg.net
November 9th, 2009 at 5:20 pm
It’s crazy to come back to this blog posting over a year since I last visited, and they’ve only closed 49 sales in the Olive 8 building according to the King County website. That’s less than 25% by my reckoning.
Are there any plans for discounts? I haven’t seen them marketing Olive 8 much around town.
December 30th, 2009 at 12:26 pm
Prices have started to creep down. Some of the recent closings are under $600 sq ft.